| In case you missed this. |
| Here is the link to last Friday’s interviews on the Sam’s Creek Mine. |
| https://freshfm.co.nz/programme/fresh-start-friday-with-grant-knowles/ |
Julie Downard transcript
“Good morning Julie. Welcome etc.
Can you tell me a little bit about Sams Creek Collective and what your goal
is?”
Morning Grant, thanks for having me on the show.
Sams Creek Collective is a group of people, concerned citizens, who came together
when it hit the news that Siren Gold was planning to mine at Sams Creek and was
applying for Fast Track approval. We’re from all walks of life – professionals,
retired professionals, farmers – from all over the bay, including the Takaka Valley,
where the impact would mostly be felt.
We took it on, to raise the alarm last year, to raise awareness as to what Siren Gold
is up to, to inform the community. We had a public meeting. We presented to TDC.
Our goal is to make sure that our water is protected, that it’s not polluted by mining
activity at Sams Creek. We’re not anti-mining; but it’s not the right place for a mine
– the risks to our water are too great.
We have a website and a mailing list and we’d like to encourage your listeners to
sign up so we can keep them informed – it’s not the same as Save Our Springs,
which is a different organisation.
We’re online at samscreek.nz and you can subscribe from our homepage.
“Keeping the community informed is important, and I discussed that with Paul
Angus last week. Do you think they’ve kept the community informed?”
You know, he made that commitment in his first radio interview with you, and he also
made it to SCC when we met with him last year, and they said they were “committed
to bringing the community along with them.”
But the only information they’ve put out has been in ASX statements. Australian
Securities Exchange.
So sure, anyone who’s been following the ASX statements would know they were
drilling, but is that really what they call keeping the community informed? And
actually, the first ASX mention that they’d resumed drilling was posted on 14 Feb,
a day AFTER drilling started on 13 Feb.
ASX statements is how you keep investors informed. The people Siren actually
wants to bring along with them is investors. Not the community. Actions speak
louder than words.
“I suppose some of the community might also be investors”
Gosh, I hope not, given the level of risk of that investment!
In any case it’s the people in the community who are concerned about the mine,
that Siren needs to keep informed.
Keeping the community informed could take the form of giving Jo Richards a call,
asking him to cover the story in the GB Weekly. Instead, Siren has a pattern of not
even responding to Jo’s requests for information! GBW is a main pathway for
information in this community – how can you keep the community informed when
you leave GBW out of the loop?
“Paul did comment that there is quite a bit of misinformation out there in the
community.”
Yes, well I want to emphasise that any misinformation is not coming from SCC! We
can back up all of our statements with evidence from credible sources – we have
OIA requests, media reports, information from industry insiders.
I agree there is misinformation out there. Some of it is coming from Siren
themselves. In particular, part of keeping the community informed is being honest
with the community about the risks – not pretending there’s no risk at all.
I mean, if they truly believe there is no risk in extracting thousands of tonnes of
arsenic rock, powdering it, and putting it near a marble aquifer and hoping that
engineering will keep it safe for all time, honestly Grant, they must have their heads
under a rock.
Keeping the community informed means honestly saying “yes, there are risks,
the mining industry doesn’t have a good record, here’s what we’ll do to reduce the
risk but there still is a risk the dam could fall down the hill.”
Calling it a blatant lie or calling us scaremongers (as they have done in the media)
when SCC highlight this risk is dishonest.
You know, Siren has a considerable vested interest in persuading people that what
it wants to do is safe. Its directors stand to make lots of money. The community
shouldn’t be taken in with their rhetoric.
“Can you say a bit about those risks – what are they?”
I think the first thing to point out is that it’s incredibly marginal economically as a
venture.
A bit of history. In 2020 the last owners tried to get $23M for the right to explore at
Sams Creek. Two years later Siren, through its NZ company Sams Creek Gold,
whose director is Paul Angus, bought it for just $250k. They’ve bought a lemon.
Firstly, the gold concentration is a measly 2.8g/tonne of rock.
Even electronic waste has 5g/tonne. Why don’t they just mine that? There are
established processes now, and a real opportunity in the market.
The seams at Reefton have considerably higher gold concentration.
There’s still the same amount of rock to dig out, but you get a much higher return.
So for several decades everyone has walked away from Sams Creek (and it’s
passed through a few hands in that time).
Secondly, this 824koz of gold they say is there?
NZ follows the Australasian mining code (JORC), which categorises ore resources
into three levels of confidence – measured, indicated, and inferred.
Measured means you can be pretty confident the gold is there. None of Sams Creek
resource is measured.
Indicated means there’s enough data to estimate the amount of gold. Only
300,000 ounces of gold is Indicated.
Inferred means you are taking a wild guess. Most of that estimated 824,000 ounces
is Inferred – 528,000 ounces.
The code even spells out that investors should not rely on Inferred amounts –
because it’s too speculative.
So Glossy ASX statements, software that makes it all look a million dollars, but when
you dig into what they actually have, it’s stuff all. Siren owns a lemon and they’re
trying to pretend it’s an orange.
If you want to invest in gold there are much better options elsewhere.
“Why is that a risk, why does that matter?”
Because this is exactly the scenario where companies go bust part way through, and
leave a mess that the rate payer, tax payer has to pick up. And the bonds mining
companies have to pay usually don’t cover the costs. So that’s a risk for the NZ
taxpayer and for the community.
“So you’re talking about privatising the profits and socialising the costs.
Let’s talk about other risks. Paul talked about the concentrate being taken
away from the bay. That would leave a much lower concentration of arsenic in
the tailings that are left here.”
Yes, if they manage to achieve a 95% concentration, what is left here is just 5% of
the arsenic. To put that in context, that’s still about 4000 tonnes of very finely
powdered arsenic. Which is more than enough to kill every person on the planet. If
the tailings dam fails and it all falls down the hill, it will end up in the river and the
aquifer. Even small amounts impact aquatic life.
Concentrate is likely to go to Macraes mine in Otago, for the good people down there
to have to deal with. And I guess I have to ask, are we okay with that? You know, I
don’t live in the Takaka Valley, but I’m here speaking out because I care about my
community. Why would we wish this problem onto another community?
“Yes, let’s talk about Macraes. Paul Angus mentioned it and I know you’ve
spoken about it too, when you came and presented to TDC last year. What’s
the link between Siren and Macraes?”
Macraes mine is owned by OGL. Paul Angus is very connected with Oceania. They
used to own the Sams Creek rights and they still own 18%. A lot of these mining
companies are quite interlinked, owning shares in each other. Oceania is kind of the
parent company. So they would likely process the concentrate.
If Siren really does aspire to be a ‘good corporate citizen’, its choice of partner is not
reassuring. Oceania has a poor safety record.
Multiple consent infringements across their operations (not just at Macraes).
Repeat non-compliance at Macraes bet 2019 and 2024. Water quality was breached
29 times, and a decline in aquatic health was recorded.
Taken to court in 2009 for deliberately breaching their consent at Reefton;
deliberately released toxic sludge into the creek.
During mining there, frequent leakage into Devils Creek, so bad a local farmer
downstream couldn’t see the bottom to ford it safely.
This is not a good company. They’re a company that takes shortcuts.
Let’s be clear – Oceania birthed Siren. That’s where Siren comes from. Where Paul
Angus comes from. They’re the root stock. And one could guess that the apple
might not have fallen far from the tree.
“But Paul Angus assured listeners that everything will be properly
engineered.”
Yes, he said “we don’t just put up a dam.”
You know, I guarantee that when Macraes mine was in the pipeline, they were also
assuring the public that everything would be properly engineered. I can guarantee
you they didn’t say “oh yes, the pit wall will explode down the hill in a massive slip in
- The dam will have ongoing leaks, including one around July 2024.” But that’s
what’s happened.
So don’t believe that this ‘engineering’ is as failsafe as Paul Angus would like you to
think it will be. Especially not when there’s a dollar to be made, and certainly not long
term – many, many mine failures happen well after the mine has closed.
He’s again not being honest – he’s minimising the possibility of failure.
And if Siren Gold is in denial about all this, then that’s an additional cause for
concern.
[OIA Tailings leak 24: “Leaching had been observed at this site for a number of years
in small amounts. This year much higher amounts of leaching has been observed.”]
“Paul mentioned the Globe mine at Reefton as an example of good
remediation, do you know anything about that?
Yes, Oceania has done a great PR exercise at the Globe Progress Mine including a
promotional video. It’s fair to say Oceania have carried out extensive tree planting
and landscaping there and we agree it looks lovely. But lovely doesn’t mean safe;
it’s likely every stream in the area is polluted, and I wouldn’t let my dog drink out of
the tailings lake. And given that Reefton is very close to the Alpine Fault, what will
happen if the expected AF8 earthquake splits it all open?
Siren also told the media last year that the arsenic in the tailings dam there would be
“so minimal that you will probably find higher levels of arsenic in the local surfaces
now.” If Siren means there is no arsenic left in the tailings dam, exactly where has it
gone? I mean come on; Arsenic doesn’t just evaporate. It would be interesting to
have an independent expert visit the site to do testing.
“Let’s talk about the current drilling. They can drill 10-20m per day, dropping
to 5-6m per day once they hit the gold seam, so they’re not going to have
completed their drilling by the time their exploration permit runs out.”
Yes, their permit runs out on 26 March and they can’t get a further extension, even
though they have consents for drilling under that permit that don’t expire til April
2028.
It’s really disappointing to learn that they effectively get an extension to their EP by
applying for a MP, and that that will keep them going for a further year while their
application is considered.
I suspect the reason they’ve left it so late is they didn’t have the money – the drilling
they’re doing will be costing them around $1.5M. At the end of last year Siren sold
their Reefton interests to a Canadian company, which brought in $4M in cash. My
guess is they needed funds to start drilling.
“What do you think are their chances of getting a mining permit?”
After 50 yrs of exploration up there, there’s still not enough evidence that there is a
profitable resource.
Two main variables affect profitability – price of gold (which can tank anytime), and
cost of mining, which includes compliance costs. Fast Track significantly reduces
the costs.
But it’s still really hard to see how they will be able to prove that there’s a viable
business up there.
Once they have a mining permit, they can continue to explore. If they decide to
progress to a mine, they can apply under the Fast Track.
“People think that because they didn’t get on the Fast Track list, the risk is
over, they’ll have to apply under the RMA.”
Yes, they weren’t one of the 149 projects included in the actual bill, largely only
because they weren’t shovel ready and there were too many projects. But that
doesn’t mean they can’t apply when they are ready. And given that the Advisory
Group who assessed the projects that applied found that Sams Creek mine met the
criteria to be in the bill, and even gave them the highest priority level, they will sail
through the ministerial assessment and go straight to the Expert Panel. And the
worst thing is we won’t even know. The community will not be consulted. We’ll only
find out if TDC or the iwi are consulted and decide to tell us.
And the Fast Track Bill only requires compliance with limited parts of the RMA. Kind
of RMA-lite. Unlike the usual RMA pathway, TDC will not be the decision-maker.
And look, we asked TDC to speak out and voice their opposition to the mine, and the
mayor said they couldn’t, because as the decision-maker they have to remain
impartial, not have a predetermined position. But actually, given they’re not the
decision-maker anymore, they can be as vocal as they like. We’d like TDC to get
some legal advice on that. We’d like them to speak out.
“Just wondering whether you’ve seen the recent report from ESR on future
water testing for the WCO?”
Yes, I had a quick read. It’s good to hear TDC will be doing water monitoring at
Takaka River at Harwoods and Lindsays Bridge as well as in the marble aquifer.
Good to see that Arsenic is one of the heavy metals being monitored in the initial
sampling round. Thanks to a generous donation, we’re also, in tandem with FoGB,
arranging for our own Arsenic testing around the Waitui Stream and Takaka River
area so we have a baseline. Currently arsenic levels in GB water show incredible
water purity – below the measurable threshhold.
“So is there anything else you’d like to say?”
Well yes, in your interview with Paul, you asked him why he does it, and he said “for
fun, challenge.”
That is such an insulting thing to say, such an insult to the community. It’s fun to put
a community’s water at risk. We all know clean water is a basic human need, it’s
fundamental to being able to live somewhere. He doesn’t live here – he’ll go
somewhere else as soon as the mining’s over. It’s fun to put lots of people through
years of anxiety. There’s absolutely not an ounce of social conscience, of caring
about anyone else, in that statement.
And in addition, it’s such a distorted answer.
it neglects to mention the six figure salary, shareholdings, the company and the
bundle of other interests that go with the job. I don’t think he’d be doing it if he
earned nothing. So it’s just not the whole story.
The motive is simply that the (foreign) mining company Siren hopes to make a profit
out of it, whether directly by mining or by capital gain on the licences and consents it
holds. There is no consideration of whether it is a socially constructive or
environmentally beneficial thing to do.
And the financial aspects lead into the bigger picture of gold mining, which we
haven’t discussed much.
In the case of gold, mining more is not useful.
Here are some numbers to back that claim.
Last year 3,600 tonnes of gold were mined worldwide. More than 1/2 of it went for
speculation, i.e. put back underground and locked up.
There are already 36,000 tonnes in vaults around the world and even if no more gold
were mined, worldwide, the speculation could continue unhindered. A substantial
amount is used for jewelry, notably in India where culturally it doubles as an
investment (about 750 tonnes in 2023).
The amount of gold used by industry (mainly electronics) and dentistry was 300
tonnes – about 9% of the total.
Sam’s Creek might yield 2 tonnes per year for 10 years: insignificant.
So Gold is not a critical mineral.
Then there’s the greenhouse gas emissions a mine would generate. This is not a
risk but a certainty. The best estimate we have is it would cause emissions of
about 1 million tonnes CO2 equivalent, but that’s unavoidably approximate
because Siren hasn’t even decided on open pit vs underground mine yet.
Every person with a mining background that I’ve spoken to tells me “it’s never going
to happen” – a mine at Sams Creek. Some of your listeners will have that view. But
Siren says it is going to happen, so we have to plan for the worst.
Where the community isn’t behind a venture like this, it become very difficult for the
company to go ahead. I think I read that they’ve already experienced theft and
vandalism, and had to employ security guards. That’s a measure of pretty strong
feeling in the community, and those sort of things really add to the costs.
That doesn’t seem likely to stop.
The community doesn’t want a mine at Sams Creek. We don’t want our water put at
risk for the sake of profit. Siren wants to take a gamble with our water. They need
to go away.
Siren Gold , key points
Paul Angus, Siren Gold, was interviewed by Grant Knowles, Fresh FM on 28 Feb 2025
https://mega.nz/file/6ZMFzS4Y#n99IGn_s1FuQR5q7n63LrhmkdgdB6xFb3C_GdW3SNsE
Below are the points of most relevance to us. The whole interview makes more sense in conjunction with the diagram on page 4 of Siren’s 14 Feb ASX announcement
0 – 1:40 Grant’s intro
1:40 We moved a mobile drill rig into the area a few weeks back, we had to drill some holes before the permit expired later in March. Par for the course, 1 or 2 holes, pretty deep, the first hole about 700 m, targeting about 200m below the existing mineralisation looking for extensions deeper down-plunge
3:03 The last holes Siren drilled in the area, 2013, intersected ‘some pretty strong mineralisation’. This is really just a follow up from that drill programme.
3:22 We’ve been looking at underground and open pit designs as part of the mining application we will lodge in the next few weeks … extend the size and the number of ounces we can mine.
4:06 we’re doing stage 1 of a 3 stage process, need to lodge the mining permit before 26 March 2025.
4:30 They tell us it will take 12 months to make a decision on whether the mine permit will be granted. If it is then we’ve probably got 2 – 3 years of investigation work, detailed design work to see if the options we’re considering at the moment are viable, and maybe some more options might come out of the woodwork as well.
5:38 Anomaly. I think you might refer to recent ionic leach soil geochem a deep sensing methodology that indicates what might be down at depth – maybe not a kilometer deep – could be the source intrusion. What we’re exploring at the moment is the volcanic dyke that’s been squirted up from somewhere, and so there’ll be a source for that dyke, it’s likely to be a small pluton and that itself may not be mineralised but because of the ionic leach that’s another prize potentially, deeper down than we’re drilling currently.
7:06 The drill hole starts off a bit wider so pq, 80 odd millimetres, then we’ll reduce as you get deeper so might be nq which is 60 mm (or 56 I think it is)
8:00 details of diamond drilling. Core catcher barrel typically 1.5 m, possibly 3 m so drill 1.5 metres then recover the core. Don’t need to pull the drill, put the wire line down, recover the core, then start drilling again.
9:04 Slow process, the rock at Sam’s Creek is very hard, probably one of the hardest rocks to drill in NZ, all the drillers find it pretty challenging. At best we’re probably doing 10 m a shift. We’re double-shifting up there so we’d like to get 20 m a day we’re not achieving that yet – broken ground – Once we get to Sam’s Creek dyke it’s very hard, we may only drill 5 or 6 metres a shift
9:45 If we put a subsequent permit in then until NZPM make a decision on that permit, the exploration permit carries on (despite it’s expiring).
10:32 The rock’s only about 1% arsenic. The drill water is recycled through a 3-stage settling tank and then gets pumped back down the hole. The fines that come up with the drill water get bagged and we fly them off-site. If the ground is broken, sometimes you lose your water so the water just disappears until we can seal it up again. [but they need to maintain circulation to keep the bit cool]
12:35 The depth allowed by consents “We can drill up to 1000 m under the current resource consent
13:15 Grant asking about keeping the community informed.
17:40 Grant asking about the WCO and Arsenic. Do you know much about this stuff? “No not at all. That’s part of the detailed investigation we’ll get into in the next 2 – 3 years if we get a mining permit.
18:30 The plan is to produce a concentrate, initial work suggests that works very well, we’re getting about 95% recovery by doing that. So all that arsenic goes into a concentrate and then we ship that off-site, take to a 3rd party for processing.
20:42 I think Sam’s Creek will be very similar to the Reefton Globe Progress operation. At Reefton they do a float-con [flotation concentration] and put the con down to Macraes to process.
23:20 Drilling here since 1984, various companies
25:30 Grant said Murray Close is coming on 15th April to talk about his report on monitoring the aquifer.
27:20 As far as resource consents and DoC access concerned you still have to do the same amount of work [despite fast track]
28:50 We’re drilling 200 m below where we’ve been before